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author: [SecreTmaniaC](http://reddit.com/user/SecreTmaniaC) (**2 months**) ``|`` author karma: *1*/*1* ``|`` [original story's comments](http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/13w4an/my_friend_has_some_interesting_evidence_regarding/) ``|`` [flag](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23atheismbot&subject=flag&message=Please describe why you are flagging this submission - http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/13w4an/my_friend_has_some_interesting_evidence_regarding/) -- _____ So this whole thing started with him asking me about what I think of the flood myth in the bible. I gave him some questions and he answered. He got quite a bit of help by is creationist father to formulate his answers.. (My text is bold, his is cursive) **1. Building the ark: Wood is not the best material for building a ship. It's not enough for it to hold itself together, it also have to be solid enough to withstand the forces from the waves which might blow holes in the hull. Wood is simply not strong enough to prevent cracks in the joints. Specially in the rough seas the ark would encounter. The longest modern wooden ships are about 300 feet in length, and they need reinforcements of steel and leak so badly they need to be pumped constantly. The ark was 450 feet in length. Could an ark of that size be made seaworthy?** *His answer: The ark didn't have any sails. The entire purpose of the ark was to float. Rough waves? There was nothing but pouring rain. And in addition, water came up through subterranean springs. The bible says nothing about there being a storm and strong winds, just a waterflood. These modern wooden ships you are talking about, having reinforcements of iron etc. is true. The difference is this: These ships were meant to travel from A to B. The ark was ONLY made to float. A bit like barges.* **2. Collecting all the animals: There are several problems here. Some animals like sloths and penguins can't travel over land very well. Some animals like koalas and several insects require a special diet. How did they take this with them? Some arachnids, centipedes and moths can't survive in less than 100% humidity.** *His answer: Sea creatures and fish would be fine by themselves. Besides, the bible says nothing about all the animals being adults, thus they could've brought eggs (from all egglaying animals/insects, even dinosaurs), pupae, larvae and young animals instead to make room for everyone. The animals could've been gathered during the ark was built. The most exciting might be the thought that the continents weren't split up yet, and the oceans were smaller. The oceans didn't get bigger until after the flood... Thus making all the actual animals possible to gather without travelling around the world.* **3. fitting all the animals: There has been estimated about 5 000 000 species of mammals. I cba about listing the insects, birds and sea creatures. The numbers get colossal. I don't remember where but I found one guy who calculated very accurately how little room there were on the ark eventually. The number he landed on were 32.098 species per cubic foot. Very tight, indeed. And I can't imagine the weight. Several mill. tons!** **4. Taking care of the animals: Many animals require a special diet. The koalas need eucalyptus leaves and silkworms need mulberry leaves. For millions of plant species (which were on the ark as well), there are at least one animal which ONLY eats ONE particular plant. Where did Noah get all the plants and where would he get room for them? Other animals are carnivores. And they eat nothing but other animals. How could Noah estimate and make room for all these diets? The food had to stay fresh. Animals like snakes and spiders eats only live food. Aphids are physically uncapable of sucking juice from wilted leaves. How did Noah keep all these things fresh? The ark had to be ventilated properly. There was a 18-inch opening at the top of the ark and a single window, but the ark was divided into several stalls and 3 floors. How did the air circulate? Feeding the animals would take ages. How could a crew of 8 manage to take care of animals in a larger quantity and diversity than any zoo in the world? Exercising the animals would be impossible. You can't expect wild animals to run laps around the ark and go back into their respective stalls without a lot of supervision.** *His answer to 4 & 5: I answered both of these in question 3. Concerning food, I'd like to mention that tigers and lions in zoos all over europe during WWII were fed fruits and vegetables. They survived! Could it be because of all the animals in The Garden of Eden ate just that and not each other? The Chinese Panda has the same set of teeth as bears and other carnivores. They eat bamboo... But if you have enough milk, water, plants and grains can the majority of animals and birds live on this for a long time.* **5. Problems concerning the flood: Ice cores from Greenland has been dated back 40 000 years by counting annual layers of ice (like annual rings in trees). A worldwide flood would most definately leave behind sediments and changes in the salinity of the ice, big amounts of trapped airbubbles and possibly a lot more evidence. Why hasn't there been found such evidence? We don't see any traces of the flood at the seafloors or any other places. The most noticeable would've been the extinction of people and animals. You would've also seen changes in grains of rock and in the sediment layers, but something like that hasn't been found. Why do we never find these things? Annual rings in trees doesn't carry any signs of the flood either. Annual ring records trace back over 10 000 years, but no evidence of a disaster or a flood during the time The Flood should've occured.** *His answer: The flood is mentioned in scriptures and stories from all over the world (Doesn't that contradict it?), for example the Aztecs in South-America, the aboriginals in Australia. The legends of Atlantis which tell the story of a city sinking into the ocean. In addition we have scriptures from modern day Iran/Iraq telling about a worldwide flood. We have also figured out that Gran Canyon have been carved by massive amounts of water in days/weeks. The theory and experiment have been showed on National Geographic Channel. They think this is caused by a gigantic flood from a humongous lake flowing down the Colorado River. About traces after The Flood regarding tons of plant and animal debris dying in a extremely short amount of time... Well, oil and coal stem from such debris, and it is odd how these are in layers of strata with the same age... Nothing before and nothing after... Hmmm??!!!* *Then there is the theory about the ice-age coming AFTER the flood. This is because of all the water situated as a shell around the Earth producing a greenhouse effect keeping the heat constant and protecting the Earth from cosmic radiation, keeping people healthy for hundreds of years (Noah was 600 years old when The Flood came...). When this water-shell entered the atmosphere, massive amounts of water melted at once, and then the Earth got severely cooled down. This created the ice-age.* *Newer research has implied that mountains can form very quickly (months/years) if the continental forces are big enough (the Earth's crust get elastic/molten). This may have happened in connection with big subterranean springs of water getting forced up, while tons of water poured down like in a shower. This gives big wheightgains and may have influenced the Earth's crust to start moving itself. Ergo, the continents may have moved around in the same time period, so that what has been one supercontinent was moved in a short time period to how we see it today. The forceful volcanic eruptions which may have occured were cooled down by the water... As I said: these are theories which can't be validated, but they can't be weakened either.* *Many animals and plants couldn't withstand the transition after the flood because of changed atmosphere and a colder climate. Noah probably had seeds and saplings with him from the most vulnerable plants, while we know other seeds and plants can survive months and years without any problem at all. The animals getting where they would after all of this, may be because of the continents still being connected. Innbreeding wasn't a problem yet because the genes were still clean after so little time since the creation and haven't been affected by the cosmic radiation yet.* *A proof of this is Lions in Africa and Mountain-Lions in North-America. They are so much alike they must come from the same genealogy and have been on the same continent until our time. The same accounts for Jaguars in South-America and Leopards in Africa. Buffalos in USA, Asia and Africa are also very alike. etc. etc..* *In the end it's all about believing in the possibility for this to have happened, instead of always listening to the scientists who with science try to disprove things. Scientists ave been wrong before and will be wrong again. There are countless examples* **Where did you find all this?** *Not the internet. My dad is fucking smart xD It's like he says: "If someone says something many times, people will eventually believe it" And he went out of school with B's* (Oh, the IRONY!) That was the whole Word Document translated word by word from norwegian to english. Anyways.. What I'd like is detailed comments. Thoroughly examining his flaws of logic, reasoning and facts. I'm able to refute this, that I know. I just need to see what you guys think of this. Did he bring up evidence for the Flood Myth? Or is it mostly a load of BS? Thanks in advance :) EDIT: Formatting fixes EDIT 2: He's not really indoctrinated from my understanding. He just asks himself difficult questions and overthink and take his dad's word for whatever he tells him (authority). I've debated his dad. It resulted in me just leaving the scene. The amount of nonsense was littering my intelligence tbh. So if I can get something to show my friend that this way of thinking is very wrong and for him to see his own logical fallacies will actually help him from the ongoing indoctrination by his dad. He has/had a great understanding of science. He's just been tought to overthink. _____ *Met criteria: score>0 and comments>10*